Outrunning Failures

Real Estate Resilience: Todd Schowengerdt’s Journey

• Vish Muni • Episode 18

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Today's guest is Todd Schowengerdt.

Todd is a renowned expert in both commercial and residential real estate investment, driven by a deep passion for the industry and a talent for building mutually beneficial relationships.

His journey began at age 14 with the book "No Money Down," which sparked his interest in real estate.

With over two decades of experience, Todd excels in transforming challenging projects into profitable investments.

He prioritizes investor trust and connections, actively welcoming new investors and exploring fresh acquisition opportunities while nurturing his extensive network.


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Creator/Main Host: Vish Muni

Show Advisor/Editing: DBT Marketing

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>> Vish Muni:

Well, today we have Todd Schowengerdt as a, guest on outrunning failures. I've known Todd for over four years, and me and Todd belong to a multifamily group. And Todd has been a, an investor and a real estate agent for a little over 15 years. And he breeds stocks, walks, sleeps real estate, and he's a second or third generation real estate investor. So with that, and Todd is from Phoenix, Arizona. And then he has a wealth of knowledge and he's very heavily connected with the right people in real estate. Todd, welcome to outrunning failures. Could you please tell the audience a little more about yourself?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Hello, vish, and thanks for having me. Yes. my real estate addiction first started back when, my grandpa on my dad's side. So grandpa Schowengerdt he was a successful businessman. He sent my dad a book that was a whole laid out strategy on investing in the cadillac of rentals, single family detached within a ten mile radius of your house. It was called nothing, down by Robert Allen. And I don't know if my dad read it, but I read it. And so from 14 years old on, investing in real estate made perfect sense to me. both my parents were in education, so they were, the genes, the business genes can kind of pass through one and go to the next. So both of my dad was a school psychologist and my mom was a elementary school teacher. And they were both very good at their jobs. They just weren't the entrepreneurial type of, types. And so, that gene hit me hard. So by the late nineties, I started in the computer industry. And then by the late nineties, I would eventually made my way to real estate. On the commercial brokerage side, I was a tenant rep, which essentially is like a buyer's agent for buildings. So, and so people lease a space in an office tower or wherever, so you help them do that. and then by early, two thousands, had some friends who wanted to buy a bunch of residential investment stuff. And I told my buddy, I said, hey, that's cool. And he just looked at me, goes like, well, would you want to do it or not, stupid. I'm like, okay, I'll learn how to broker those deals and help you guys do that. And we invested a lot in that. And then the great, recession came and that was a whole big learning experience. And, I, and I think I started reading about multifamily. I got a Dave Lindall book back in like 19. Well, maybe early two thousands. And, so I've been following that, and that made sense to me. And so finally, within the last five, six years have gone out more into the multifamily and more into the commercial investment space.

>> Vish Muni:

That is fantastic. So you had real estate in your genes.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

In other words, I forced them in there. If they weren't there already, I forced them in.

>> Vish Muni:

Well, that's good to know, because unlike a, lot of us, I've had multiple careers only to realize, well, that's not my passion. And by the time we figure out real estate is my true passion, I've already lost 20 years.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

No one ever says they wish they would have started later. Everybody says once they catch the bug, they're like, I wish I would have started this sooner.

>> Vish Muni:

Right, like you. For me, my grandfather started at real estate. He was, he had built a lot of, fourplexes, rental properties. And about ten years back, it hit me, my grandfather built, this four plexus 40 years back. And they were cash flowing and they're still there, and it weathered all the storms in the last 40 years. And out here, I'm trading my time for money and, is it really worth it? And that is when everything changed for me.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Totally agree.

>> Vish Muni:

Get back to what is a truly proven system. And, how much time did we spend on that? four plexus. Hardly anything. And, the Roi was fantastic in that, four plexus. Even if you spend, 5 hours in a month, it is still better than, a lot of. A lot of investments, lot of things. And that changed everything. So with that, you started, you've done everything in real estate. Looks like you've done a, whole lot of things in real estate than a lot of us. So what is your one asset class, which you're more inclined to doing?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

more, much more into commercial assets. And as long as the numbers work, we're open to a lot of different things. So, you know, we would do light industrial, we would buy multifamily, we would do ground up. We're doing a ground up mixed use development right now in the Raleigh Durham market. So open to investments nationwide so far. also have a partnership that I've been working on for about a year with a, ah, whole bunch of private money. So I have. Someone was referred to me, we had what's called a heavy lift on one of our, projects, which means it was an apartment complex that needed a lot of renovation. And, if you don't have the occupancy at a certain level, you're not going to get the best financing. And so a commercial lender referred me to this gal who has a big private money behind her. Her company's done a lot and so now I'm helping her. That has opened up now that we can do, and I can help her place that money too. But we can go into the billion dollar with a b projects with them behind us.

>> Vish Muni:

That's interesting, Todd. And it all comes down to, relationships. That is another thing which you strive upon every day, in and out. And no matter what technology comes and goes, because at the end of the day, everyone tends to do business with people they're comfortable, they trust and like, so that itself speaks for.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Itself because, yep, no, no larger deals of any type are, done, without a trusting relationship. Without trust and a relationship in there, that's. Machines don't do that then, you know, even if you go down to a hundred thousand dollar house, people aren't just going to do that for, with a, you know, without a relationship they trust.

>> Vish Muni:

Well, that is so critical and that is so simple in it. We all love to complicate things for no reason.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Put your head down and do that. Do the simple thing. And I think it was the first time I heard this, it was, Michael Jordan. But he said the fundamentals never change, only our attention to them changes.

>> Vish Muni:

Right? Yeah, that is so true. And tell us a little more about, since on this podcast we speak about, the real estate investor journey in terms of what are the challenges of one big challenge, what they had in their investment career, which had made them a better investor.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yeah, well, I think, if you get punched in the face, and you let it be a learning experience and you grow from it, that can be the best. So we got, me and several of my partners, and friends got hammered in the great recession. I thought we were due for a correction, but I didn't think the whole world economy would almost come off the rails. so, and we got hit particularly hard here in Phoenix. So then, you know, I had to learn how to help a lot of people get out from underneath their properties and their assets. And so I learned how to work the distressed market and, you know, cause I was, I was like super about my credit and all this stuff and so I had to, take it on the chin to go all the way down. And so I've seen other people that can go all the way to bankrupt like I did, and several of my friends and then come back and do even better. So, you know, there's a book called failing forward, and I think that's absolutely true. You keep going and you keep going and you keep going. And, if you're doing something difficult, you will fail. otherwise, every. If it's easy, everybody's going to do it, right. It's easy to turn on the tv, sit on the couch, and get fat. That's easy. but it's hard in the long run. So they also say that, you know, if you do what is hard, life is easy. And if you do what's easy, life is hard. And so if you're failing, if you're doing something that's difficult, you're going to fail a, lot. You're going to fall down a lot, but you got to keep going. I don't know if that answers your question, vish, but.

>> Vish Muni:

Well, that did, as an experienced investor, m what is your advice for someone? If someone were to just get started, what is the one thing you tell them to look for? Because for me, I tell them, listen, anyone can bring a sweet deal, but if you don't know the numbers, the numbers don't lie. And then even if the numbers are perfect, but if you don't have the right relationship or the right people in the deal, it's like giving a Ferrari to someone who. Who doesn't know how to drive. Right. The car is already. The car is already tested and proven. Nothing wrong with that. Imagine the car and the investing in. You have the numbers, but if the driver is bad, the car is not going to go any faster or they might wreck it. Right?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

That's right. Yeah. It doesn't help you if the driver is drunk and blindfolded, right, exactly.

>> Vish Muni:

Or is inexperienced, right? Yep. So. So I play that, and then I would say, how do you know the driver? The driver has 20 certifications. Okay. The driver say, I have the highest degrees of certifications, but you still can't, don't trust them because there's no track record, huh? Right, right.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Track record is critical.

>> Vish Muni:

Right. So what is your, one thing you to recommend a new investor or someone who's getting started based on your experience to look for, and no compromise on that, right?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yeah, I would. Well, first thing is get some kind of training, get some kind of mentor, something, and vet that person, look at their track record, and, But then do not be you. know, I know a lot of people that have paid a lot of money for training and mentorship and all this, and they are just dying to do a deal. And, you really. And that's natural, but you really need to guard against that. You need to be cautious, especially with your first deal. You need to be cautious and vet and look at the experience of the partners and the operators and really do your due diligence. and you trust me, you will be excited and chomping at the bit to do a deal, but most of the deals you should pass on should pay. You know, you should say whatever the number ends up being for you, 25, 26 nos. And then maybe one yes, maybe. Maybe more no's than that.

>> Vish Muni:

Todd, one other thing is I, know you've been an investment, real in a, real estate investor all your life, but, what do you do outside of real estate? I know everyone has a passion, everyone has a dream. What is your. What do you do outside of real estate on any given day?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

I m love to be active. So playing, you know, recently, more recently, I've done pickleball. I've been athletic my whole life, so I like to do that, like to have my body in motion. we're fortunate that we have a, second home in San Diego. I like to get out there as much as possible. I like to be out on the water, just anything active. Right. I don't want to go to somewhere and sit at the beach or by the pool. I can do that for, you know, half an hour, maybe, but then I'm going to want to do something. Parasailing, scuba diving, some kind of activity. So that's, you know. Cause I'm a lifelong, like, tennis and ping pong player, basketball and all that. And so, kind of naturally gotten into pickleball more recently since it's so popular.

>> Vish Muni:

So tell me a little more about this pickleball. Everybody seems to be talking about pickleball. I only know, but it is played on the same tennis courts and it's off the size of it. Yeah. And, that's all.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

So you don't have to be in as. Ah, good a shape. Yeah.

>> Vish Muni:

Okay. But is the game fast game or is it doubles or singles or how does it.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Well, most people play doubles. and if it's just like, if you play ping pong and tennis, it's like a mix of the two.

>> Vish Muni:

do you use the same rackets or. It's a different.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

No, different racket, different ball.

>> Vish Muni:

Right.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

There's, some slightly different rules, but very much like ping pong, very much like tennis. And, yeah, it's a lot of fun.

>> Vish Muni:

So will you be able to burn a lot more calories in a short amount of time, or is it a lot of running?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

No, tennis will burn more calories. basketball, ah, would burn more calories. So it just depends if you're going to do pickleball to be social and active and then, you know, lift weights and, and do your, your stretching and other stuff. And, you know, that seemed to work best. Right. So, get up early, knock out your workout. Then you can play pickleball, or you can get a second or third, activity throughout the day.

>> Vish Muni:

That's good. That's good, Todd. I know, I know. At some point, I think I heard you say you play, you're a musician also. You play some music, right?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Allegedly. Well, I used used to be. So the guitars have gotten a lot of dust on them. Now, my son is, he's 18, and he's going to go to music, production and engineering school here soon. We have a really good one here in Phoenix. And, so he's a drummer, and he's a dj and stuff, and so it's in the blood. And, I can thank my dad for that, too. And, so, yeah, I played in bands and stuff back in college, but I'm kind of, for better or worse, I'm either kind of on or off. I'm not. I don't do things kind of halfway very well. So I was playing guitar all the time and playing in bands, and if I'm not doing that, then I'm doing something else, you know?

>> Vish Muni:

So. So you, you like to be active all day, all the time?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

I like to be active. Like, I've got a standing desk here at work. at some point in the past, someone said sitting was the new smoking. And I'm like, I agree. Now that I have a standing desk, if I'm sitting for too long and I'm like, I got to get up, I got to move.

>> Vish Muni:

Well, like you, I can't do a zoom call sitting down. I think I fall asleep, and I'm, spending all the time trying to adjust the camera. and, I like to stand.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

I couldn't tell you were standing too good. I like it. Well, you're an act. You're an active guy, though, too, vish, so you're like me.

>> Vish Muni:

Yeah. So I feel that since, you're athlete also. So I feel that whatever you do with fitness, there's a lot of parallels when it comes to investing, also, you plan and you know you can't do that. 20 pull ups by going to the gym once in two months.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

That's right.

>> Vish Muni:

So it takes consistent effort. It takes gradual process. It's going to hurt, it's going to pain. It's where there will be days you don't feel like working out of. And, in real estate also, it's a long grind. It's not a. It's not a ten minute or 15 minutes work. Right.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yeah. Right.

>> Vish Muni:

And.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yeah. And that's where that patience comes in, you know?

>> Vish Muni:

Right, right. So. So we. We are in it for a long, long haul. So. And then initially, like you, I made some mistakes. I want. I was so obsessed with my, duplex, which we bought, and I kept bugging the property manager every ten minutes, 15 minutes. Like it's your own baby. Right? Your baby. Super protect your pet. So. And then, one day I got a surprise voicemail. Not even anything else that the property manager says, I quit, working for you. I don't. I've never come across someone like you. And, you've been a pain and you walked away. And he's given my. My number and details to email to the property tenants. So I didn't know anything about property management till such time. So that was my first failure with, took me by surprise.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

So it's like, usually don't get warnings.

>> Vish Muni:

Yeah. It's like Mike Tyson says, right? Everybody has a plan till they get punched in the face.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

That's 100% true. That's right.

>> Vish Muni:

So I didn't even see that punch coming for me. Right?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yes. You need to plan to be punched in the face and plan for things not working out. You need to plan for that.

>> Vish Muni:

So now. Now after, ah, being in it for a while, nothing surprises me in real estate, so. And I'm only. I only take things really, really hyper serious if there is a fire in the place, because I don't want anyone hurt in the process. But other than that, it's okay. Everything is part of the process. Right, right. So it took me a long time. And, that. That's what's cooking for you. What are. What deals are you working on right now?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

We have the, ground up development in the Raleigh Durham market. And that is, the land is assembled, working on the entitlements. the city's all behind it. So, that'll end up being a multi, story, mixed use retail on the bottom and, apartments above. and then also I'm actively looking for bigger deals to place, this capital with. So these people, this group I partnered with, it could be, could be a lot of fun, a lot of education and lucrative to finance these larger deals. Right. 300, 400, 500 million dollar deals or up. So working on a couple of those right now.

>> Vish Muni:

So that's good. That must be keeping you busy.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

yeah, it's always nice to have food with your meals. So you do need to do some things that get in. I do some coaching and other stuff that has a little bit of consistent income. But it's I still had some people that called me that, leave or not wanted to. A couple people want to sell their houses, a couple people want to buy. Okay, so what's going to, you know.

>> Vish Muni:

You'Re like a one stop shop because people come to you for wanting to sell their house or wanting to buy and then you call, you could also, do you also talk to them about real estate investments and then some might be an investors also, but since they're, they just need some help to buy or sell house. Okay. now does that overlap with your investing career or it complements.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Sure, sure. I mean, the market's gone up so much here and I'm already somebody they know and trust over like decades now. Right? So if I say, hey, I'm doing this, I'm doing this deal, you should take a look at it since you got, you just cleared, you know, a few hundred grand on the sale of your house or what have you. So, yeah, it works, it's, and it's all a, it's all a people business, it's a contact sport, you know. So, people know you and like you and trust you and they know what you're doing and if you're doing cool projects, people want to be a part of that.

>> Vish Muni:

Yeah. So what, that's good to know that. So what I do consistently is I feel these are some of the things which are non compromising. I'm non stop learning, never stop learning, never stop networking, and never stop adding value to anybody you come across, right?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yep. Yep. Couldn't agree more.

>> Vish Muni:

Right. So, so these are the things which are, which I would do no matter what, no matter what business I do, whether someone is watching me or not watching me. So do you have anything to add to this?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

that's that's great. And that's plenty, right? That's enough.

>> Vish Muni:

Right?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Always be learning, always be networking, always be trying to add value to everything, right? So if I, I'm thinking that when I'm like out walking the dogs or whatever, and I see some trash. I try and leave things better than I found them. So I'll pick up some trash along the way or something. So if you just are doing that and then you apply that to whatever you're doing, it's just part of you. Yeah, I know. It's, there's. I can't really add anything to that because I think that's perfect.

>> Vish Muni:

Yeah. It's a little things which go a long way.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

The little things are now, consistent. Little things consistently really amplifies over time.

>> Vish Muni:

Right. So I believe in, being disciplined is better than being motivated.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Do you agree to that? Absolutely. Motivation wears off. So it's like a shower, you know, you get smelly again, and you'd have to shower up with motivation again, where if you're just consistent, determined, reliable, you know, that that's how you win.

>> Vish Muni:

All right. So I think the mindset also goes a long way in what we're doing.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Oh, that's one thing I would add. Mindset is huge. That's. And I kind of want that in with the learning, but mindset above all else. yeah.

>> Vish Muni:

Yeah. So you didn't mention that you're also a coach. What kind of a coaching do you do?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

helping people, get into their first multifamily deal. So. And then what if that, if it turns out that there's a, you know, an industrial building or, you know, medical office, condo or something that makes more sense, then, well, I can help them do that too. Right. So. So it's just, someone to be there in the foxhole with them in their corner and someone they can lean on to, because a lot of it's. Most of that is mindset.

>> Vish Muni:

Right.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

And most like this morning, I was just helping someone. They were having their first broker meeting, and I'm not coaching this person. I just know them. And so I just gave them a little tips and so, yeah, it's, it's good to have the support there because this is difficult. Right. It's a difficult thing to do, but it's doable.

>> Vish Muni:

Well, anyway. And you don't lose anything by sharing or helping people.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

It's like if you, if you have the abundant mindset, right? If you think there's not enough to go around and, you know, then, then, But if you're abundant, you share openly, you help people wherever, along the way the whole time.

>> Vish Muni:

So do you agree that, in real estate, investing also is a contact sport?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

It's a team sport, 100%. Yeah. Right.

>> Vish Muni:

So you might be the only one on the deal, but you still need the property manager, the insurance, the lender, and, tradesmen to make that property cash flowing.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Absolutely.

>> Vish Muni:

Right.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

And those tenants. Yep. Keep the. Treat those tenants like gold. You bet.

>> Vish Muni:

Right? Yeah. So it's a long way. That's. That's good to know, then. So, other ways. So one other thing I want to ask you is what would you. Would you still do what you're doing if you had million dollars sitting in your account tomorrow?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yep. But because I don't. I'm not, Like, I don't want to sit on a beach somewhere. I don't want to be retired. I like interfacing with, you know, my community, with the world. I like doing stuff. I don't want to. I don't want to play golf all day or do, you know. Yes, I want to golf. Yes. I want to do those things. But that's. I want to do something. So if something's fun, do it some more. Right. If we. If we get. Once we place one of these large deals there, then. So I have enough money to retire. I'm not going to. I'm going to do it again because that was fun. Let's do that again. Because people want to be. They want to be, like I said earlier, a part of something cool. So if you're putting together, like, this guy I know in one of my groups, they're doing a food. Not a food campus, but a food. I can't remember what it is, but they took an old building, an old, like, industrial building, and they've got essentially, like, a bunch of restaurant tours or food trucks or, food people filling up all the spaces. So it's like a little. And they've done this in, some cities already. And so that's a.

>> Vish Muni:

Is it something like a ghost kitchen or, food market?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

I don't know. You might have one in DfW. but, it's just a cool idea, and so to hear him talk about it. And so people want to put their. Want to put their money, want to be a part of something cool, right? So I think doing this, you know, one of these, like, helping, you know, build a new hospital or bring another power plant online or help manufacturing plants. Some of these bigger deals we're looking at, I think that's cool. I think that's fun to be a part of. Right?

>> Vish Muni:

So in other words, you want to work with the community, just be part of the community.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yeah. 100%. 100%. And thank. Thank goodness that I'm where I'm supposed to be. Right. I like, I genuinely like talking to people and. And, meeting new people and stuff. So it's, I'm definitely like a front of the house person because I, like, I enjoy talking to people.

>> Vish Muni:

Right. So. So, on the other note, what gets you out of bed in the morning every morning? Because we, all of us, think twice. Some say I want to go back to sleep, and I don't feel like getting up. My body aches, my leg aches, and, at the same time, we can't be lying down all day long, but we got to get up and stay motivated because there are a lot of people dependent on you, whether you like it or not. So they go with your energy levels because you can't tell them, right? You can't tell them your body aches. And they will also sit back and say, oh, you know, my, my uncle, my dad, my brother, my cousin Todd is not very excited today, so I think I'm going to sit back. So a lot of people dependent, whether you like it or, not, and you wouldn't even know. So how do you keep yourself in high spirits every day?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

I think I'm a naturally optimistic person. but, I would say to one, much is given, much is required. I think that is true. but it's not like it's, you know, it's like you're saying, you know, you have a duty to the world, or, you know, I think that all of us that were born in the United States were born with a winning lottery ticket already. And so I think it's our job to do the best that we can with that opportunity. And, you know, it's. Life is too short. And, you know, some days it's suck it up, buttercup, and you got to get up. And one thing I really like is from a guy who was the president of a company, and I got to be friends with him. And his thing was, he's a marathon runner. And so say it's, like, 40 degrees and rainy and it's time to go run 10 miles. Then he just would lay in bed and say, it's not deciding day. This is not the day. This is not deciding.

>> Vish Muni:

Not today.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Nope. I decided the beginning of the month. This is the schedule. Today's not the deciding day. Get up.

>> Vish Muni:

Get up.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

And, So it's just. I don't know. It's a self respect thing, too. But you don't have to complicate any of this. It's just life is much more fun, and you're a more attractive person when you have the good energy, like vish does, like, when you're trying to make up everybody better that you come across. And. And if you're in a funk, you know, I like to have a little quiet time and get myself kind of recentered, if possible. so I don't, You know, I don't know. I just kind of. Life is too. Life is an adventure, I think. And I'm, I want to get up and see what the next day holds. And also, you have appointments, and if you have, and it's not deciding day, if you set up a workout, workout routine, you know, those. Those things. I don't know if that helps you, vish.

>> Vish Muni:

No, but that does, because it's more fun when you just keep going. Like, it's not. It's not.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Momentum is huge momentum because.

>> Vish Muni:

Because it's, I might be down, but I don't want to be down for too long, probably.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

That's right.

>> Vish Muni:

30 seconds, 1 minute.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Well, and being down sucks, right? It sucks. So break up that pattern, you know? Like, I mean, I know Tony Robbins and other stuff will say, you know, do jumping jacks or jump up and down or something to break up. And it's just like when I'm with the dogs, right? They get upset. They get focused on something, and I'll smack my hands or give them a smack on the b*** or bump them a little and break up the pattern. Right?

>> Vish Muni:

Break the pattern.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yeah, just break up the dog pattern. And people do the same thing.

>> Vish Muni:

So what does retirement look to you? People talk about retirement, I'll do this, I'll do that. But, for me, retirement looks pretty.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Much like what I'm doing right now. I just want to be doing deals. And then we schedule in vacations, spend time at the San Diego house, spend time at the Scottsdale house, see what my son's up to, you know? And so, yeah, it's very much like it is right now. Probably just more traveling.

>> Vish Muni:

that's good. Yeah. For me, it's a lifestyle because there is, no retirement because I enjoy talking to people. I love networking. I like learning, and I like doing deals. And, the only thing would change for me would be I might spend more time with my family, I might spend more time with to create memories. I might spend more time with the community service, because this is my lifestyle. This is what I love doing it. Right? It doesn't feel like work and you.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Should just have that mindset, you know, I would suggest, I would recommend everybody, you know, if you want to do some computer community activities, if you want to do some charity thing, if you want to, just may incorporate that into your life now. And that's then that's just, you can amplify it in the future. Yeah.

>> Vish Muni:

so how can people reach with you? Reach you if the want I would.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Say the best way right now is I have a, I'm a jayhawk. I went to the University of Kansas and I, am a jayhawk and I'm in Arizona. So I had for a long time ago, I thought, oh, I need to use the jazz group because I'm a music guy also. So the jazzgroupmail.com, however, jazz is spelled with two a's and one z. So because I'm a jayhawk in Arizona. So jaazz. So the, jaaz group@gmail.com. jazzgroupmail.com is the best way.

>> Vish Muni:

All right, so. So, Todd, your dedication fuels a journey forward to overcome obstacles together, right?

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yes.

>> Vish Muni:

And, thank you for being a part of, outrunning failures podcast. And, I'm sure my audience are going to appreciate your suggestions and recommendations, what you made as to how they can become a better investors. And m if you get, if we get knocked down or punched in the face, we don't need to be there. We need to get up and take the next step and keep moving. Momentum is the key. Right. That's the only way. That's the only way all of us can outrun failures. Right.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Exactly. You will get punched in the face. We all get punched in the face. It's part of it.

>> Vish Muni:

And, we don't know how, when and where it's going to happen.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

That's right. That's right. We didn't step into the ring, but we're still getting punched in the face. But you step into the ring when you do these kind of deals, you got it, you know?

>> Vish Muni:

Right, right, yeah. So what? Do you get used to it, in other words.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Right. You get tougher, you get, you get up quicker. Right.

>> Vish Muni:

All right. All right. Thanks, Todd. Thanks for being an awesome guest on, out running failures. It was great having you there, having you here.

>> Todd Schowengerdt:

Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you.