From Venezuela to Vegas with Hans Seelinger

Today’s guest is Hans Seelinger.

With over a decade of real estate investing experience, Hans Seelinger has navigated a remarkable journey from single condos to 100+ unit multifamily complexes.

His passion lies in helping others achieve financial freedom through smart real estate investments, a path that began in 2009 with a simple condo purchase.

As his knowledge and portfolio grew, Hans transitioned from smaller multifamily properties to larger complexes, learning invaluable lessons about market dynamics, deal structuring, and the power of passive income.

Today, Hans invests full-time and shares his expertise through Underwriting2 Win, an online coaching program designed to teach investors how to analyze deals with precision, identify hidden property value, structure syndications for maximum returns, and build a robust real estate portfolio.

Having transformed his own life through real estate, he now guides both novice and experienced investors toward financial security and the freedom to pursue their passions.

learn.uw2win.com

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Creator/Main Host: Vish Muni

Show Advisor/Editing: DBT Marketing

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Transcript

>> Vish: 0:00

Well, good afternoon everybody. I'm, very excited for another episode of Outrunning Failures. I am very thrilled to have Hans Schillinger, my good friend, another real estate investor. we both belong to a couple of mastermind groups and that is how we met. And I've been talking to Hans and we've been connected to social media and LinkedIn and we have a lot of common friends. Hans is one positive person who has overcome tons of challenges and he's a full time real estate investor with that. Welcome, Hans, to Outrunning Failures. And could you please tell the audience a little about your background and how you got into real estate?

>> Hans Seelinger: 0:50

Yes, of course. First of all, thank you so much for having me here. I'm very excited and humbled to be able here to speak to your audience. yeah, so, I was born and raised in, South America in Venezuela. That's where I'm from. And my background was actually corporate. I climbed the corporate ladder. I put all my eggs in one basket. Right. I just started in a warehouse and climbed up to be general manager of Puma, the sports brand in Venezuela. And but, as many of you already probably heard, the economy in that country collapsed. And, found myself in a very complicated, situation because my income with that collapsed as well. Right. So that was the first failure I had to overcome. And then, I decided to move here into the US and start all over again. Found myself, delivering balloons for my wife's, business until I transitioned into real estate investing. And, that's where I am right now. That's basically my background. I've been, doing this. I started investing in 2008 in real estate. I bought a couple of condos in a foreclosure. A good time. I think that was good timing when I got in. And then when I transitioned into a multifamily, I've been doing that since 2021 and it's been an amazing journey. We now have over$40 million under management and assets under management and still growing.

>> Vish: 2:10

Fantastic. Hans, thank you for sharing your challenging past. I'm sure it's not easy for you to, be reminded of all that past, but nevertheless, listening to your journey, you did the transition, you had to do whatever it took, and there's no looking back. And working for Puma looks, like you have something to do with the sports. Also, are you into fitness also?

>> Hans Seelinger: 2:39

well, I, worked a lot with Puma and my life has been revolving around sports, and sports. Brand and sports related things. Now I'm full time investing, that's what I do. But yeah, I was pretty much involved with all that when I had some nice times. Had the chance to go to the Olympics also to do some stuff there a few years ago. So it's been an amazing journey.

>> Vish: 3:04

Well that's fantastic. Most of us dream of going to Olympics one day. We'll go to Olympics. So you've already been there and you work for one of the best brands and in sports also now with real estate, since you've been you bought a few properties in a tax sale or in a foreclosure and apart from that you also, and syndicated also I guess if I'm not wrong. And a few multimillion dollar deals. Now with that being said, as any of these deals you had so far challenged you or you had any bitter experience which has made you a, ah, better investor.

>> Hans Seelinger: 3:48

Yes, I think we all, I mean anyone who has accomplished anything has gone through, it never goes aligned like this. It's more like a line like this. It's ups and downs, ups and downs. But then on the long run it's a, it's an up ah, it's, it's an upwards trend. Right. I believe one of my first deals when I started doing syndications. Because for me though the whole point was once I started investing, came to a point where I ran out of money to invest of my own and that's how I had to learn first how to actually leverage investors and to actually buy these larger deals. Right. That was the first hurdle to overcome is like how do you do this and overcome that mental block of am I actually worth of doing this? Do I have what it takes? So the first horror, let me the mental one. I remember the first call I made to a broker when it's more or less like this. I pick up the phone, did the first phone call. When they answered I panicked and I hung up. So that was my first experience when I started this journey. Right. So, and I know a lot of people when they're starting in the journey. The first hurdle to overcome is the fear of actually talking to people and overcoming that imposter syndrome. Right. We say I'm going to buy this multimillion dollar deal yet I don't have multimillion dollars on my back account to, to take this deal down. Right. But after you overcome that, one of the big things I remember that happened to me, there were two, two experiences. One, I had a property Here in Florida. It was a deal I bought was a smaller deal, I would say smaller for a syndication, but it was, it was a for. It was a deal that I was doing a joint venture. We bought a 12 unit here in in Florida, in Miami, where I'm based. And what happened is insurances, right? Insurance went crazy, right? Especially in Florida. And the way I had my deal underwritten, everything was working perfectly and I had over 12% cash, on cash on that deal. But then all of a sudden Insurance went from $5,000 a year to$25,000 a year, right? And that basically ate up all the cash flow. So that was a tough decision that we had to make. So I had to sit with my investors and I said listen, I think now it's the perfect time to sell the property. We have the property for two and a half years. And we said if we sell now, we will make about 27% average annual return. But if we keep the property, basically we're only going to bank on appreciation. We'll have no cash flow. And I don't know how that is going to look like in the future. So we sat together, it was, I had to sit with my partners and say let's now take the decision to sell. And we sold the property and we made a 27% average return as we were selling. I think we made one of the very important lesson that I now tell all the time people, it's not the highest offer that wins, it's the assurity of closing. I always tell that to people. And I made the mistake. I took the highest offer because I was greedy. Guess what happened? They couldn't close, they couldn't perform. So I lost three months in that process, right? So on the second one I thought I knew better. So I took again the highest offer because we're greedy because we want to have the maximum returns. And guess what? They couldn't close. So I had last six months in this process, right? And during that time we were not eating on our equity but we were making no cash flow because the insurance just basically ate all the cash flow possible, right? The payment for that. So at the third one is the charm. we basically decided to go with surety of closing. And that is something that I've learned on the other side. On the flip side, when I purchase properties it's not always the highest offer. It is a surety of closing is knowing that I can take this deal down. So when the last, the third time we took a Person that had better credentials. We did a little bit more due diligence on the buyer. Right. We just didn't take the highest offer. Let's just actually look at him. And we found out that they have the credentials and they could actually perform. And then we ended up selling that deal and we made a good profit on it. But yes, it was, it was some, some ups and downs during the process on that.

>> Vish: 8:20

So what you're trying to say is these challenges or setbacks can come in different forms, not necessarily from the property performance. And your first challenge was beyond your control. That is the insurance and taxes going up. I mean you could do an underwriting extremely conservative. But now that is a lesson learned when we have to be prepared. Anything could go wrong. And then the next is. Which was in your control. But you are thinking in terms of giving the highest returns for your investors. And so you wanted the highest and best offer. But nobody knows. These kind of things happen in real estate all day long. I mean the seller who gave the highest offer may not have had any good intentions of backing out, but you would have had a different challenge altogether. Right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 9:13

Really?

>> Vish: 9:14

Yeah. So you never know. I think it's a difficult call to make as you being in the driver's seat. It's a difficult call to make and you're responsible for a lot of things, moving parts. Right. So that is a big lesson learned. And I'm sure going forward you will probably take necessary precautions how to mitigate that risk, right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 9:36

Absolutely.

>> Vish: 9:37

That's good. And then so what, what kind of asset class do you invest you do on apartment complexes or do you have any other asset class?

>> Hans Seelinger: 9:48

the asset class where I am is basically multifamily apartment buildings. That's the type of properties we are taking down. And yeah, that's basically what it is. Yes.

>> Vish: 9:57

Are ah, they, are they class A class B or value deals or do you have any number of doors or.

>> Hans Seelinger: 10:03

Yes, we're basically focused on we like B and C type properties in B and C type areas. And of course the ideal scenario is if we can actually find a deal that is a C type property on a B type area. Right. We always like to have a property that's a little bit lower on the class than what the areas actually is. So we can upgrade it and bring it to there and then we can actually have some nice value add component into that. But yes, we like to do value adds. We don't like to do complete repositionings. Of properties and full rehabs. Right. We like to have properties that have cash flow day one when we buy them. And we just want to execute, create a business plan and execute a strategy where we can take it from where it's currently performing to perform to a little bit better and make some good returns for our investors. And we always like to put our investors first. I always say have first the investors served, and then, you know, you, you, you will get your reward if you are actually giving. It's adding value to the investors. That's, that's what I always say to everybody.

>> Vish: 11:10

Well, that is so true because you could, you could change the property, but you can't change the location. And so, so that, so that makes sense. So that, that was good. So how do you, how do you operate? Do you operate by yourself or do you have a team or do you partner on a neat basis?

>> Hans Seelinger: 11:30

this is a team sport. I mean, and I always like to say that this is like a rowing boat race, right. I hear sometimes people talk about, I'm the underwriter. The other one's going to be the asset manager, the other one's going to be the capital racer. I don't believe in that strategy. I believe that's more like a relay and you only have one person running at the time. I like more like a rowing boat where everybody's on the boat, everybody has a roar, and everybody has to row. Right. So I like teams, and yes, I do partner, depending on the deals, but I do have a core team, right. that I work with. And, then depending on the deal, we can invite some other people if we need someone on a specific area. in most cases, it has more to do with raising, capital. That is something where we partner with other people that can bring some investors. But we want to make sure that everybody on our boat knows how to roll. Right? So. Or at least has the will to roll.

>> Vish: 12:27

well, that's, that's extremely important because I may not be the best underwriter, but at least I should know how to read that underwriting statement, how to understand that, right? So that's extremely important because it's, it's a team sport. Like you're telling everybody on the board should row, but some might be stronger than others, some might be weak, but everybody needs to row at the same time, right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 12:51

That's the way we move the boat forward. And you touched something very important, which is the underwriting. I do believe that that is the core of this business. Yes. You may, you may have someone that's the strongest underwriter on your team. That's right. But everybody needs to know how to underwrite because you need that to find the deal. Or basically understand how much you can pay for this deal based on the business plan that you come in there. You need it to raise the money. Because when you're talking to investors, you're not selling a condo on the beach, you're inviting them into an investment. Right. So you need to be able to explain the numbers and understand how the deal is underwritten. But then when you buy the deal, that's the roadmap of what you're going to do. Right. That's your guide. This is the plan we have now. Let's go do it.

>> Vish: 13:40

Well, there are so many moving parts in the syndication. Underwriting is one. And then, someone might say finding the right deal is the key. Someone might say, well, asset management is the key, but the other person might say the property management. And, so everybody would think that their role is the best role. But I would say all roles are equally important because you might be the best underwriter. but, if you're not able to bring capital to the deal, you can't close. And even if you have the best underwriting, and even if you have all the capital to close, if you don't have the right asset manager, the deal might go down. Right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 14:22

Totally.

>> Vish: 14:23

I think every moving part in this, syndication is crucial to make the deal happen, Right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 14:30

Completely. That's why it's a team.

>> Vish: 14:33

It's a team effort. I mean, people say, oh, you know what? All you need is the best, underwriter or the best capital raiser. You can make things happen. No, you can make it happen. No doubt. But for you to move forward, I think everybody need, to carry the load, Right? So that is good. So I also see, I also saw it another place that, ah, you are also into coaching or you have a coaching program. What is all that about?

>> Hans Seelinger: 15:00

Yes, I do. Thank you for going on. Yes. basically, after we have been able to hit certain success, people start asking you, hey, how did you do it? How did you do it? And from that process, I basically, talked to the person who taught me how to do the underwriting, and I said, hey, is there any way that we can collaborate? And we basically came up with an idea of structuring a process where you can step by step, learn how to take down these deals, basically understand how to find the deals, how to analyze the numbers, how to come up with A business plan and then how to present that plan to sponsors and brokers. Because I do believe that, since this is a team sport, you need to be able to add value. Right. So we want people to be able to, to understand the business inside out so they can actually become a valuable team member on this industry. Not just having one little skill, but understanding all the skills in order to be, someone that, that someone would like to have on their team. Right. And so far it's been an awesome journey. It's also a piece of giving back. Right. We always say it's not just about taking. Right. It's also about giving back and being able to be part of the success of someone else's story. That is just priceless. And we've had already some students that already closed. We had one last week who closed the deal, two weeks before we had another student who closed on a bigger, 60 something unit deal. And they have already another deal under contract. So being able to, to help people on their journey, it's just the best feeling in the world.

>> Vish: 16:34

That's fantastic. So it's always good to see that your students are doing well. So. Which means that something is working. Whatever you're doing is working.

>> Hans Seelinger: 16:44

Exactly, exactly. So our community is called Underwrite to Win. And yeah, and it's been an amazing journey. Technical underwriting.

>> Vish: 16:53

So tell me, are you from Florida? Which part of Florida are you from?

>> Hans Seelinger: 16:57

I am based currently, in Davie. That is near Fort Lauderdale. so yes, I've been here since I moved in, 2013. I've been here in Florida and I.

>> Vish: 17:08

Love it, man, I love that place, Fort Lauderdale. And for the longest time, me and my wife used to come to Fort Lauderdale, only we stay there and it's a good driving distance to Keys also. So we just like to go to the Keys. And until I found another good friend, in this place, right by Treasure Island.

>> Hans Seelinger: 17:31

Oh yes.

>> Vish: 17:32

So this good friend is right there. And then, thanks to them they have a property on the beach. So every time we go there, we just right there walk to the beach from their house. So Fort Lauderdale just lost a lot of business from us. So yeah, I love Florida. Hopefully one day I'll probably get there. So with that. So where are all your properties? They're all in Florida or, which, where, which states do you have your properties?

>> Hans Seelinger: 18:03

Yes, thank you. Yeah, well, I have properties here in Florida. I do have properties in Texas and we just recently closed another property or two big portfolios in, Vegas.

>> Vish: 18:15

So that's good. So what are you looking for? Any help on those or you're looking for investors or capital or what kind.

>> Hans Seelinger: 18:23

on that deal in Vegas, we actually just closed, it's a portfolio. We closed 122 units back in December, and we closed the remaining 111 units, a month and a half ago back in June. And now with the properties closed, we're still inviting, investors to join. It's an amazing opportunity. I would love to connect with you and explain, everything that we got going on there. because it's a mixture of social, impact and also investing. Right. So it's extraordinary returns by also helping the, community and giving a little bit back. And on that deal, we're still accepting investors.

>> Vish: 19:01

Well, that's a, that's a great way to give back to the community. So that's because you're. Your passion for real estate and also making things happen and providing the most essential thing to people is the shelter and affordable housing. And so that's got all the components in that. So that is a fantastic. And that's a creative way of looking at things. And I remember when I met you a few times, you were six, five or seven.

>> Hans Seelinger: 19:30

I'm six, eight. Yes. I'm a small giant.

>> Vish: 19:34

Oh my. Six, eight. Have you played basketball or, do you play any games?

>> Hans Seelinger: 19:39

I had a shirt that my sister made for me and it said down, up here says temperature up here is fine. And I don't play basketball. Yes. no, I actually was horrible playing basketball. I think if I had practiced, you know, with, with enough practice, you, you would have, mastered it. I didn't have interest in, when I was younger in, in basketball and I was horrible. Everybody wanted me on the team until they gave me the ball. When they came, they wanted me out of the team.

>> Vish: 20:12

Either. Either you have it in you or you don't have it because.

>> Hans Seelinger: 20:16

Yeah, I used to play volleyball and I was very good at long distance running and long distance swimming. And I believe we've been swimming because of my length of my height. That gave me some advantage. I was half halfway the pool just by jumping in the pool.

>> Vish: 20:30

Oh my goodness.

>> Hans Seelinger: 20:31

Yeah.

>> Vish: 20:31

So you, you only need one or two strokes to get to that.

>> Hans Seelinger: 20:37

Exactly, yes.

>> Vish: 20:39

You know, you know, I've been wanting to learn how to play golf. Okay. And like you trying to play basketball. So when I was in California, we lived three miles from the golf course. I took classes three times, but after that I never went back and Then after moving to Texas, I thought, you know what, the best way to sign up for golf, I mean learn to play golf, is become a member of the golf community. So I became a member of the golf club and all I did was, networking. I used to meet all my vendors and most of my customers, my friends for breakfast, lunch, dinner and coffee and some drinks. But I played golf two times in a matter of two years and I was paying for the membership. Okay. And finally I, decided, you know what? This is not for me, man, that decided to cancel that membership. But yeah, so sometimes you got the.

>> Hans Seelinger: 21:42

Good networking out of it.

>> Vish: 21:43

Yeah, I did. I mean that's. I love networking. I like, connecting with people because we think we had a rough time. We think we are the only ones who had a bad time until you travel and when you start listening to other people. So that is when, we all need to appreciate and be thankful for what we have, whatever little we have, right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 22:08

Absolutely.

>> Vish: 22:08

So till such time we don't feel the pain. So we only feel our pain. But when you see what people have really, really gone through, like nobody would have known the challenges you had other than until you told us about it. Right. And, that makes you a stronger person. You can't go back. You will have to get up and move forward. Not none of us are going to move back. Right. So absolutely. It is challenging on any given day so to do that. So one other question. What I have is now, you come a long way where you started and where you are now, real estate was not in you. You became an accidental real estate entrepreneur, right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 22:56

Or less. Yes.

>> Vish: 22:57

Right. So with that being said, what is it for? What are you planning to get out of real estate in the next year?

>> Hans Seelinger: 23:08

In the next year. in general, I do believe that, real estate is one of the best vehicles to create generational wealth. Right. I mean, I do believe that that has been around for centuries and it's going to be around for many centuries to come because people need a place to live. Right. And one of my goals is for this next year to acquire another 100 units. Right. I want to be able to grow my portfolio and to help other people to get into the business as well with the coaching. Right. And help investors make money. Because at the end of the day, regardless of what deal an investor comes in, right. when you are able to present an opportunity of investing in a, let's just say 100 unit deal with little amount of money, right. Without having to buy the whole thing, I think that's adding a lot of value and it's giving the opportunity to people to invest in real estate that maybe otherwise couldn't. Right. If you have 25,000 or $50,000 to invest, that's not too much money to buy your own property. But you can be part of, a larger project that is professionally managed by a, by a team that knows what they're doing. So I believe that that is something that adds a lot of value and I want to be part of that as well. Yeah.

>> Vish: 24:28

Okay, that's great. So assuming that you met all your goals tomorrow, you have your financial freedom number and what would you do if I tell you, Hans, tomorrow morning, this is your financial freedom number, you don't need to work another single day. Would you still do real estate or would you do something else which you're passionate about?

>> Hans Seelinger: 24:53

I believe I'm always going to do real estate because I am actually now very passionate about it. Right. I believe that, I'd still do it, definitely, but, I'd probably travel. I think, one of the things that I enjoy the most is traveling with my family, spending those quality time and, and those memories, those things, they can, no one can take them away from you. Yes, of course, we all have the material things that we want to buy, you know, the better car or, you know, the better boat or let's just buy a plane or whatever. But that emotion that lasts, that lasts just a little time. But the emotions that you put when you travel with your family, that quality time that you put. I still have two young kids, right. I have a 12 year old son and a 9 year old daughter. And if you ask me, what I want to give them is the ability to see the world. And so they can make their own opinion of what the world is actually like and give them the opportunity to see the super fancy and the super nice, but also give them the chance to see, hey, not everybody is as fortunate as you are. So that they have that heart of, whatever I do, I have to have the mindset of. Also think about the less fortunate and start giving back a little bit, you know.

>> Vish: 26:06

You know, the traveling is so much fun. You sort of, only when you finish the travel, you realize those memories, what you create when you're in the middle of it, you wouldn't think that they're going to last a lifetime, but. Yeah, but those are the little, little things what you remember for the rest of your life. They might seem extremely stupid at that times, but trust me, that's exactly what Makes the journey a lot better. Right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 26:37

Exactly. Exactly. I completely agree. And sometimes those little mishaps are so fun after the fact. Right. Because those are the nice stories. Right. Like when you came to the hotel and you were at the wrong city, you booked the wrong hotel for the wrong date, and you're like, oh, we don't have an hotel for tonight.

>> Vish: 26:57

You go there one day late and you thought you had canceled the room, but you didn't.

>> Hans Seelinger: 27:03

Exactly.

>> Vish: 27:05

I remember when, me, my daughter, my niece and my wife, we were going to Bahamas, and, my daughter was five and niece was three, and we go to the airport probably something like two hours ahead of time because it's international travel.

>> Hans Seelinger: 27:22

Yes.

>> Vish: 27:23

And, just, about 30 minutes before they start boarding, and my niece has an accident. So we take her to the bathroom, we take her to the toilet to change the diapers. But for some reason that is so messy. She only wants that one. We want to throw it out. And she starts, crying and screaming, and she's in one of those moons. And then everybody knew we were. Then we were the last ones. We almost missed the flight going to the airport two hours before. And every one of them knew we were right there. But we are not there. Yeah, it's been more than 10 years since that happened. But till date, we talk about it.

>> Hans Seelinger: 28:11

That's how the trip started. Right. And that memory will never go away.

>> Vish: 28:16

So what I feel is that the real estate is good, because at least, I feel that, we create so much more memories using that. The vehicle What money can buy. It gives us that freedom and gives us that time to spend with the family, which matters a lot. And, since you've been through a challenging times, you know, at the end of the day, it's a family and your health is everything. Rest. Everything is absolutely rest. Everything would come and go. The money is, money is just a vehicle, like a car. I mean, it could break anytime. You could lose everything. It might be stolen. Right. But, if you don't have your family and, those memories, nobody can take it away from. Right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 28:59

Absolutely. Absolutely. Totally agree.

>> Vish: 29:02

Right. So that is what it is. So, what is it in terms of, growing any other business or your consulting business or your training business? So plans for that?

>> Hans Seelinger: 29:16

Yes, of course. we want to be able to help as many people as possible. We're in the process of. We just finished recording some other stuff into our program because we want to make it basically the best program available for people to understand how to do underwriting, right? That's the vision that we have, that we want people to be able to learn and then start applying. It's all about taking action. Actually, today I had a call with our students, and what we were talking about is it's good to have knowledge. That's all very important to put something between your ears. But the most important piece is start taking action. Right? So we want to be, a group that actually teaches people how to take action. Not just to learn how to do it, but actually start doing it. That's why we encourage our students and we say, if you want to really win a deal, the first thing you need to do is you got to submit an offer. Right? There's so many people who learn how to do this but never take action. Right? Our thing is, we want our students, all of them, to start submitting offers in the first 60, days that they're enrolled with us, right? That's our goal, right? We want people to start submitting offers as fast as possible. Because that's how you win the deals, right? It's the only way. And you know it and I know it. Right? If you don't submit an offer, nobody's going to call you and say, hey, Vish, you know, I know you didn't submit an offer, but it's yours.

>> Vish: 30:36

Right? So the key is, what I always felt is I've been a lifetime athlete, and if you don't take a shot on the goal, you're not going to get the goal. Right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 30:46

Exactly.

>> Vish: 30:47

Are you going to get every shot? Are you going to get every goal? You don't. Right. But, will you stop taking? No, you never stop. Oh, you never stop. I mean, do you think you can stop if you. Do you think you're going to stop underwriting if you get to Thousand Doors? No, you will not. You will not. So that's what I tell people. My education is really good. Education is good to have and never stop learning and never ever stop learning and never, ever stop networking, because you never know what you learn from everybody's experience. And, you don't need to make all the mistakes. You can learn from other people's mistakes at the same time. Right? And with that being said, we all need to. I love to share my experiences. That is how I educate people and I inspire them. But, it's up to them if they want to take action or not. And I Tell people, if you want to run a 5K, the first step is you need to get off your couch and you need to.

>> Hans Seelinger: 31:53

That's where it starts. Put the shoes on. Put the shoes on. Come on.

>> Vish: 31:59

You can't sit on your couch and talk about running a 5k. Nothing is going to happen. Right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 32:05

And you know what? That's the thing. I see so many people talking about making deals and talking about investing and talking about. But, hey, talking is not going to get it done.

>> Vish: 32:13

Right?

>> Hans Seelinger: 32:13

Right. You. You have to start taking action, and you gotta get. Get uncomfortable. Right? It's. It's uncomfortable the first time you do it. It's uncomfortable. Right? It's. It's always going to be. You run. If you run a 5k for the first time and you didn't train or you're gonna have some muscle ache the next day, or even if you finished, I don't know if you did, but you do that once, that experience helps you get better the second, and then the third, that's how you start running up. It's not like the athlete just, oh, he has a natural talent. And he won. He won the thing, and he was just, you know, sitting on his couch the morning before.

>> Vish: 32:46

I think I would say the talent is good, but if you want to grow, you got to work hard.

>> Hans Seelinger: 32:52

Oh, yes.

>> Vish: 32:53

And there is no luck, because people don't realize how much work you put in, how much of time you put in, how much sleepless nights you did. But people will, walk up to Hans and says, hans, for you, it's an overnight success. There is no overnight success, my friend. It's all. It's all.

>> Hans Seelinger: 33:14

I like to quote my mentor on that. He said, It, took me 20 years to be an overnight success.

>> Vish: 33:19

Right, exactly. There you go. Yeah. There is no so with that. Hans, thank you so much for taking time from your busy schedule, from your training and traveling, underwriting and working on deals at multiple locations. And I really appreciate you sharing your journey with us, and I'm sure all our investors and your audience and my audience are definitely going to like it.

>> Hans Seelinger: 33:46

All right, awesome. Thank you.

>> Vish: 33:47

Thank you, Hans. Thanks for coming here once again.

>> Hans Seelinger: 33:51

Thank you so much, Vish, for having me. And thank you, everybody. Hope you found this helpful and that, we were able to add some value to you.