Outrunning Failures

Building Relationships in Real Estate Investing with RJ de Leon

• Vish Muni • Episode 40

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Today’s guest is RJ de Leon.

RJ founded NVR Capital to democratize real estate investing. 

With expertise in real estate, finance, and investment, he aims to empower individuals to take control of their financial futures through education and accessible learning experiences.

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Creator/Main Host: Vish Muni

Show Advisor/Editing: DBT Marketing

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>> Vish:

Welcome, to another episode of Outrunning Failures. Today we have another fantastic guest, rj. RJ and me met at, one of the networking events and we became good friends over a period of time. And, the last time I met him, he had a little tiny baby boy, and I guess he's now 4 or 5 years old. So RJ is seen all spectrums of real estate, from property management, selling, construction and investing. So with that, let me welcome rj. Rj, welcome to Outrunning Failures. Could you please tell the audience a little about yourself?

>> RJ De Leon:

Hey, Vish, I'm really excited to be here. We actually met at the Real Estate Radio Guys Secrets of Syndication. It's been so long. And you're right, my son was only six months old at the time, I believe. So it's been a couple years since we've known each other. Really excited to be here and so happy that we're able to do this together for your audience. If you don't know who, who I am, my name is RJ De Leon. I'm a real estate investor. Started with the traditional house hack, three plaques on Southside Chicago. Moved up into commercial real estate, did a couple syndications, built a construction company. know all aspects of the game because I was a commercial real estate accountant, for Jones Lang LaSalle. I was a property manager for a short period of time, and I was a real estate broker for a short period of time. Now I've built the construction company. And now at the end of what we're doing, we are building single family homes. So it's a little bit about me in a short, tiny, nutshell.

>> Vish:

That is fantastic. So what you're doing now is a build to rent community, right? The single family homes.

>> RJ De Leon:

That's actually incorrect. we are doing new development, but we're doing high end luxury homes in highly desirable neighborhoods in Chicago. and the reason we're doing that, we're doing it transactionally is because we're seeing a lot of great margins, at least in the Chicago market for what our build cost is versus, what we sell them for.

>> Vish:

Well, rj, you've seen it all. You've been in. You managed accounting for real estate investments. And you, you did some syndications, you did some house hacking, you did some flips, and, ah, you finally looks like you zeroed down on development. Now, how long did it take for you to find your passion in real estate? One asset class.

>> RJ De Leon:

So with asset classes, I just want to say this is just one pivot. It's not A passion. It's just a, pivot, because our real estate strategy has, has pivoted with the strengths and the resources we've had along the way. That's why we've done so many different things. And I foresee a future pivot because I only see this strategy working for a certain period of time. Yes, we could do it for a long period of time if we wanted. But really what I want to get into eventually is commercial industrial real estate. So, I forgot what the question was there, but I just wanted to say it's a pivot.

>> Vish:

It all comes down to how did you pick the development. In other words, because you go to asset class.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah. So Vish, I alluded to it in that response. Essentially, we move forward with this strategy really based on the resources we have at the time and what the market's providing. Okay, so we got into owner occupy because that was easy. That was an easy entrance into real estate. And honestly, if we got bit on that first project, maybe we're not here today. We got into our first six unit commercial because that's what the market provided. We saw a great opportunity, great deal, and we took it. When it got into syndication, that was a little bit of a passion. That was okay, we want to scale our portfolio faster and we want to learn how to raise capital. How do we do that? And we had some amazing partners that we had met through networking and they had the same mindset. So we created a syndication group together and found other operating partners that helped us find the assets. So then we syndicated, you know, and then we sat stagnant for a little bit. I was moving forward with the construction company and, I popped my head up one day and I said, wait a minute, I'm creating a lot of wealth for other people and I haven't been acquiring much myself. So we started looking again and we did a flip. We partnered another flip. And, and then the strategy of, this new development came about with a couple detours in syndicating for cannabis, being LP investors in oil and gas, LP investors in bitcoin mining, investing in some pre IPO stuff. So at heart I'm always an investor, but I pivot all the time to where the opportunity is.

>> Vish:

So you are a true investor, not just real estate investor?

>> RJ De Leon:

That's correct.

>> Vish:

It's good to know you have a blend of everything and you, diversified pretty well. Now, with that being said, within real estate, can you, let us know if you had any one setback or major setback? I Wouldn't call it failure, even though the show is failures, but I would call them setbacks or feedbacks.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah, I feel better.

>> Vish:

Investors.

>> RJ De Leon:

M. I definitely have a few. I've lost the money. I've lost money on a few deals. Right. but the one setback, learning experience. The learning experience that I had was with one of our syndications. And we jumped into this indication because we had partners that we knew, like, trusted. We loved them. I still talk to them to this day. But the other operators that we partnered with, we had a very light relationship with and we had deal and opportunity that everybody jumped in together and it was great and it was fine. But because I didn't have that pre existing relationship with them, when it came to the operations, we started butting heads, and it became clear to me that they didn't value my skill sets.

>> Vish:

So in other words, how do you mitigate that part of the risk moving forward? Do you work only with the existing relationships? Partners?

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah. So it's networking, it's building authentic rapport. Being authentic. At this point, we don't really partner with anybody unless we've known them for three, four, five years. all of our latest partners we've known for a long time. We build a natural relationship with them first, and we understand how they operate as friends and as human beings before we jump into a business relationship with them. That ensures a few things. When the deal goes sideways, when operations are skewed, when, you got to lift up your sleeves and get dirty, you, you understand to a point how they're going to respond and react because you've been friends with them. And it also hopefully ensures that if you do have to have an amicable separation, you can stay friends and that it is amicable. and it doesn't, it doesn't lead to additional stress.

>> Vish:

So. Rj, this is a strong point which, what you just made. So the whole real estate itself, no matter what systems come into play, no matter what analysis or what underwriting you do, it comes down to basic, simple thing, relationships. Everything is about relationships. Now with that being said, do you have any, secret formula or any plan or any process you go about building this relationships? Because I have a, I have a process how I build relationships. I can share mine if you want to share yours. I can.

>> RJ De Leon:

Oh, I, I would love to hear yours because I haven't really created a real framework or, structure to it yet. But I really always tell people it has to do with emotional IQ and trusting your gut no matter what you Do. Whether it's finding a new insurance agent, working with an attorney, finding a contractor, or even being friends with somebody at a bar, we all have frameworks that we live by. And we can tell, immediately if I'm grabbing a drink at a bar and I say hi to somebody immediately how they engage and interact with us. It either throws off red flags or it, it pings our sensors that says, hey, this guy's a nice guy. This guy seems like somebody I want to hang out with. And that's really what it is. There's. It doesn't have to be complicated, but it's one. Don't talk like a newbie. Don't try to partner with every single person the first time you meet them. Build an authentic relationship with them, and then see how that back and forth is. Go ask them the coffee, grab lunch, grab dinner, have multiple zoom meetings with them. How does, how's that vibe work? You know, because, like, we're instinctual creatures. We can tell by instinct whether or not a situation feels funny to us. It's both a benefit and, and, it's a benefit, but it's also a deterrent because that's what strikes fear. And as investors, we have to be risk adjusted. So before I go down that hole, I, just want to say it's really about building authentic relationships and trusting your gut, trusting your 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, 50 years of life on this planet and listening to your instinctual, to. To your instinctual behaviors that have gotten you this far.

>> Vish:

That is so true, R.J. but, what, what I do, what I do is about building relationships, is I have a acronym called for, like an automobile for D, right? So this, this one works in all the situations, and it can be used by anyone, anywhere in the world. And there's no, there's no, there's no order in which you can go. So F, F and 4 stands for family. Everyone in the world has a family, right? Some get along, some don't get along, but that is none of our business. But everybody has a family. So talk to people about their family and, and, your job is to get to know them. So that way when you ask a question, we need to sit back and listen. Okay? Listen to that family so that people are talking about family. And the second letter in Ford is O. O as an occupation. Everybody has an occupation. Some like it, some don't like it, some are passionate, some are just getting started. Ask, people, what are they, what is their occupation? What are the training to be? What do they do. And number three is R for recreation. Everybody does something outside of, outside of their primary job. Some speak about it, some don't speak about it. Like, I like to do gardening. I don't need to speak about it all the time because I feel that I'm, that's a detox for technology. I leave my technology at home and go to my backyard, just me and my dog. I can do whatever I want. I don't need to answer any calls. So I feel that is a. That's the way I connect with nature. I like to be out. So even I go running or walking in the nature, I don't take my cell phone. So recreation. Okay. And D, this is most important. Everybody, including my dog, has a dream. What. What is every. What is your dream? Ask people what is their dream? Normally people don't talk about it, but when someone asks me about it, I'm excited to tell them. Because not too many people ask about your dream. Right. So ask them about what is their dream. So with this being said, this is how you connect people. So the next time I meet you, I'll say, rj, you spoke about your dream. So how is that going? Is it still on, on track or you made some changes to it or you already achieved, Right?

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

So there's nothing wrong in asking. So that way it, builds that real relationships. Which means. So the only way you can have a strong relationship is by listening to what people are telling. Okay. If you're not listening all the time, only you want to talk. So that's a one way street. Right. You will never get to know people. And that is what I use. F O R D. It works all the time. That's what I tell people. When you go for networking events, you go to the conferences people brag about. Oh, I got 200 business cards. I have cards. Really?

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

How many people really remember you? Okay.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

Because you're not connected with them. Okay.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

You're not connected to them. Can people remember your name without you and you showing them? Showing your business card or without you and you.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

Your call. Do the people remember you by listening to your voice? So that is where the real connections happen. If you look at, if you look at my parents or your parents, your grandparents, they didn't have all the technology in the world. But look at them, the way they build relationships over a period of time. Oh, yeah, because they were, they were true, they were real. They sat down. Listen to what you spoke. Listen to what others spoke. Right. So I feel this, relationships is a key for everything. I know you spend a lot of time, you are a true investor because you are 100% passive. You spend lot of time with your family, traveling. Tell us a little more about that one. How's that going? What prompted you to, take on the journey?

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah, well, I want to say I appreciate your acronym ford. It plays into how I speak to people and get to understand know people as well. and I do think that we could all do a better job of understanding other people's dreams and desires. whether or not it's in real estate, whether you're pitching a deal for, you know, you're looking for private money or you're trying to find new partner, or even trying to hire or work for somebody, being able to understand that goes so far. So I do appreciate that. what you were talking about is currently my wife and I are in, her grandparents place who God forbid, passed away a couple years ago because we're traveling the country. So we're originally from Illinois, but we're currently in Texas. The wife and I decided that we want to travel the country. We originally wanted to live outside the country for a couple months, but she got pregnant and we had a bunch of dogs. It was no longer possible. So what we did is we came up with a plan for us to purchase a camper, a 44 foot fifth wheel to be exact. and travel across the country. So we started last year, maybe two years ago now in January, I believe, and we traveled the entire east coast. We went to Mississippi, New Orleans, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York and Maine. then we came home for a little bit and now we're on our second trip this year we hit South Dakota, Minnesota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico and Texas.

>> Vish:

that's pretty impressive. So you've been on the road for almost a year now?

>> RJ De Leon:

No, for, for two years. On and off for two years.

>> Vish:

And, and you're also managing your business?

>> RJ De Leon:

Yes, that's correct.

>> Vish:

Can you, can you share, Share that? how's that going? Share that with our audience. What real estate, done to you?

>> RJ De Leon:

Sure. So I just want to let everybody know it's not all roses and butterflies. I seem to be a proficient operator. But just to let you know, I have the same demons everybody else does. I don't operate my company as efficiently as I can 100% of the time. you know, I have to find great people to help manage certain things. and really, it's all about getting organized, which I've traditionally been really bad at. My wife is the guru at creating SOPs organization. So what we do there is we divide and conquer. She deals a lot. She deals with the property management of our personal portfolio. I run my construction company. And together, together we raise capital. she does work her 9 to 5 job. Guys, you need steady, consistent income. And 90% of real estate investors out there don't have that through passive investments. Okay. There. It's a huge world out there, and there's influencers saying, hey, you could replace your income tomorrow. But that's extremely difficult. So just so you know, we do have. My wife still had her 9 to 5 job as a remote sales worker who. And she can do it from anywhere in the world, anywhere in the country. So we found a workaround using portable Internet sources, you know, driving around the country, only traveling on days that she has days off. So that's a lot there. But I just want to say we've accomplished so much because there is stable income here.

>> Vish:

And that is so true, rj, because if you, if you are, if your why is strong enough, in your case, it looks like you have a strong why. And just, just pause that. I'm going to ask you, what is your strongest why?

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

So if your why is strong enough, nothing is going to stop you. No excuses. You will find a way to work around. So in your case, you have a baby. How old is your son now? Is he three years old?

>> RJ De Leon:

He's three years old, yeah.

>> Vish:

So he's three years old. So from the time he was two years, one year, you guys have been on the road, and in spite of taking care of him, you, you managing multiple projects, your wife being on a W2 and also helping you in your business. So you guys have been traveling. So, so it all comes down to a lot of challenges. It's not easy, but you guys have figured out a way to make things happen. No excuses. There is no going back, because what is that driving force behind all these things? What is your biggest why? For you to take on this journey, this, entrepreneurial journey, and this, being on the move. And you have the locational freedom. So what is your biggest why?

>> RJ De Leon:

I. I love what you just said there, Vish. And I'm going to unpack it by starting with my biggest why. And our biggest why is family. Now, a lot of different things come from family. It's being able to spend time with family, being able to support family, not being stressed out around family and building enough wealth and freedom in our schedules that we can dictate what we want to do majority of the time. So it's really family. I hate the whole financial freedom concept. you know, living off passive income. That is good and great. And yes, that is an objective because that helps us with our main objective. Our main why, family. So if you're out there and you're thinking, what's my main why in your main why is I want to have 100 units and I want to make $1 million and I want to do everything centered around vandy and monetary focus. You're never going to be happy. You really got to understand what makes you happy. And then to unpack what you said there. Vish, there's a lot of obstacles, there's a lot of trials. Living our lifestyle is not easy. But the most consistent thing I hear from people is I wish I could do what you do. I would love to do what you do. I wish I could do that. And I'm And you know, well, a lot of these people, I know who they are, I know what they do and I know absolutely that they could, but they don't because they don't have enough drive, passion, discipline, whatever it is. So whenever you look out there and you say I wish I could do that, change that. How can I do that? What can I do so I can do that? Not I wish, I can't. When I do this, when I make more money, I'll be able to do it. When I'm more stable in my job, I'll be able to do it. Get rid of that. What we did, we had a passion, a drive to travel the country and we said, not, we can't do that. We said, how can we do that? And I said we could do that because we could buy an RV and we could travel around. And then, my wife said, okay, that works. How can we get Internet? Starlink? Okay, we got Starlink. Okay, where do we live? What's the budget? We worked it out and in six months we were on the road. People don't do that because people don't have enough discipline, drive or thought to be able to overcome the obstacles. Instead, they're too busy telling themselves they can't. For some reason I can't do it because this. I can't do it because that with us, it wasn't we can't, it was how can we? And we did it. And we've been on the road now for over two years. We started My son was a, month and three years old. My son's been in the camper majority of his life, in daycares. Like the first trip, first nine month trip. I watched him. We're still trying to figure out the business at a lighter schedule as you're just running the construction company company remotely. So I watched them second trip, way too busy. How are we going to do it? That's exactly what Nikki said. How are we going to do this? We need child care this time. He's more mature. We have drop, we have drop in daycares every single place we've been to. My son is the most, outgoing person, the most outgoing child I know and I love it. And it's because every single place we've been, we drop them off at daycare. And that adds to his worldly experience. He learns different, vocabularies, different learning styles from different teachers, gets comfortable with, with people we introduce them to quickly. And now my son, like I told you, Vish, he can do a 12 hour car ride, no TV, no crying. Three years old, 12 hours straight in the truck, no crying with no TV.

>> Vish:

Well that's, that's fantastic RJ, because your son, he's seen more of us than a lot of others. And then why is it a lot of people can't do what you're doing? Is it takes something called stepping out of your comfort zone. Because, because people don't want to change, but they want everything. They want a lot.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yes.

>> Vish:

They would say, oh, I wish I can do a half, marathon. I wish I can do the 20 push ups. You can if you, if you can, if you're willing to sacrifice, if you're willing to step out of your comfort zone instead of sleeping till 6, why don't you get up at 5 and go? So they wouldn't want to do that.

>> RJ De Leon:

I'm going to, ah, I'm going to make myself vulnerable here and I'm going to tell you of a situation time that I did that to myself. And it was for our first capital race with our partners. We had about a million, I think it was 1.3 million. We had a raise and I ended up raising zero money for that capital raise because what I was telling myself, because I told myself capital raising isn't something I could do. I was really scared of it and I said that's not my job. I'm a construction expert. You know. I ended up doing over a quarter million dollars worth of work to the asset we purchased. But the reason I didn't raise capital is because I told myself I couldn't. And that's the biggest thing that come. That should come out of our talk here. It's that mindset. It's the limiting beliefs that we impose on ourselves. And once I switch that from saying I can't, that's not my job, not my discipline, I add, value other places, which I did, once I stepped out of that mindset and I said, I can raise capital. I know how to do this. I was a salesman for six years. I was a top salesman at an organization of over 6,000 employees. I was the second highest volume in the country. And I'm sitting here telling myself I can't sell. But the second I stepped out of that, we raise exponential dollars. I think the wife and I, within the last two, three months, have raised$2 million.

>> Vish:

and you've been on the move. You've been on the move, and we've.

>> RJ De Leon:

Been on the move. And, you know, and it's still.

>> Vish:

You have to just get past that mindset.

>> RJ De Leon:

You got to get past the mindset. It's what you tell yourself. It's how you talk to yourself every single day. But the reason I told that story, the reason I made myself vulnerable and the reason I keep telling everybody, hey, it's not easy, just like you said, Vish, like, it's all obstacles. It's what you tell yourself. But I'm telling you right now, even myself, I have limiting beliefs every single day. Every single day. and. And it. It's frustrating, but the biggest difference between me and, say, a, ah, traditional or somebody that doesn't have my mindset, rather, is that I recognize it quickly and I try to nip it in the b*** as fast as I can. as fast as I can.

>> Vish:

Thanks for. Thanks for being vulnerable and sharing that experience. We all have that limiting beliefs to a lot, to a large extent. And, I mean, we should be able to catch those and catch those and get over that. That is what we need to do. I mean, we shouldn't be stuck there forever. So the key is we want to move forward, not take a step back. I mean, it's okay to pause, it's okay to slow down, it's okay to go slow, but don't ever step back. Don't ever stay, because it is your journey. At the end of the day, you're answerable to yourself. As long as you have that momentum, keep going. Keep going. Looking back. And then what. What is in it for. For you? If you are not doing real estate, what would you be doing?

>> RJ De Leon:

Oh, I don't know.

>> Vish:

I think not an investor. What would you be doing?

>> RJ De Leon:

Real estate really, I was able to find, find myself. That's the biggest thing. so without real estate, honestly I don't know what I'd be doing. The first thing that comes to mind is if I wasn't doing real estate and I still had the same mindset that I have today, I would be trying to inspire, the youth. I'd be trying to inspire the youth and, and people that need that little bit of motivation, that little bit of boost. Sort of a Tony Robbins type thing. Because I think there's a lot to be said in inspiring, motivating and mentoring others so that we can get out of our own, out of our own comfort zones so that we could build and grow the lives that we want. And you know, I am an investor and actually wish if I could do a mindless plug. That is actually what I'm doing. Because I found such a passion for helping others, talking to others, sharing my mindset out with others. I've created the NVR Capital Club, which is a virtual online co working space for real estate professionals, mainly real estate investors that are trying to find clarity and confidence in their investing. so we take a very fragmented world of information with all the individual gurus and you know, disciplines that you could do in real estate and we put it in collective community. So everybody has a voice, everybody has mentor, a leader and you can find solace that everybody there is a like minded investor like you. so that's NVR Capital Club.

>> Vish:

So how can, how can the audience reach you in case if they want to know more about you and the fund, what you created?

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah, I would follow. I'm very big on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. That's just RJ Deleon. RJ the investor on Instagram. I would go to one of my socials hit hit like follow, and I am more than happy to connect with you. Shoot me a DM and would love to talk to you. Or you can go to nvr capital.us. nvr capital.us. you know it's supposed to be.us but I think of it as us because we're in here, we're in it together. We're in here as a collective community. If you're a real estate investor, we're all together, we are all one. So NVR Capital us.

>> Vish:

All right, thank you, rj. And with that being said, what is one final, question I have for you? So what is your. What is your plans for real estate? What are you looking to get out of it in the next five years?

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah. So in real estate, what we've really tried to do is what everybody else has done, really. find a way to create passive income so that we could focus more on our passions. What. That's why we got into real estate, because of money. But what real estate has allowed us to do is understand it's not about the money, it's about the happiness, about the time with the family. And that's why our biggest why is family. So in the next five years, I don't know what I'm going to be doing. hopefully more syndicating. I want to move into commercial, industrial, actually triple net lease, because that seems like the most hands off. And, I have some partners, and actually a great friend of mine, he was on Action Academy, Taylor Nucci Telli, is stopping by in just an hour on his way to, North Carolina, where he bought seven industrial buildings last year. And I'm so blessed that, he has built such a relationship with me that on his way to North Carolina, relocating his family, he wants to stop here in El Paso so that he could stop and say hi to us. So commercial real estate, industrial, finding great partners that I love to work with. The m. Money aspect comes when the passion is there. So I don't have any monetary goals other than say I'm doing what I love, working with who I love, working with people I love, and spending my days and time how I want.

>> Vish:

Well, that is so true, rj, because real estate, it comes down to relationships. At the end of the day, you. You end up doing business with people whom you like, trust, I can trust.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yes. 100%.

>> Vish:

100%. So it's, it's a, it's a long process. It's not a, it's not an overnight success because people would say, oh, you've been in business for five years, how come you don't have any investments? Because they've not been in your shoes. They don't get it. They don't get it. They only go by what they see on, social media.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

So social media is good to be there, but I wouldn't take everything by its face value.

>> RJ De Leon:

But we, we're off. what social media often does to us is steals our happiness because it, it creates a comparison, unrealistic comparison, and I'm victim to that. You know, I see people doing deals. I see people made a quarter million dollars on this deal. I see my friend bought seven commercial buildings. And, you know, there's always that aspect of why, why didn't I do that? Why can't I do that? Why am I not there? But everybody's journey is their own. So be mindful. They make sure you're not comparing yourself to those unrealistic social media posts. Because if you peel back the onion, you know, if you see me on social media. Yeah. RJ built a 40 million dollar, investment portfolio. Cool. But if you talk to me in person, I cannot. I. All I'll tell you is about the pains and how hard it was and how I'm, still struggling and how, like, it still doesn't feel like enough. so just make sure you're chasing happiness and not money.

>> Vish:

No, that is so true. Because I've seen. I'm sure you also know a lot of people. A lot. There's a lot of people who have a lot of money. That is number one.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

But, but they don't have time.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

What would you do with all the money if you don't have time? You can't borrow time. You can't take my time. I can't take your time. And then, and then on the other end, people are neglected the relationships and they. So they don't know where to go because they have all the money, but they don't have time. They don't have relationships. And then they're. They're not in the best of health because they've ignored health relationships.

>> RJ De Leon:

Right.

>> Vish:

M. When they're chasing, they're going after money. And now they are money, but they don't have the health and relationships.

>> RJ De Leon:

Right.

>> Vish:

It's a very delicate. It's like a tightrope.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

You got. You got to balance out everything.

>> RJ De Leon:

So I think social media has done a good job of pivoting and allowing entrepreneurs to understand, that time is one of the biggest luxuries. the pivot that I want to see next is happiness and happiness, joy, because that's essentially what time will give you. Right. So, I want to see a pivot with social media of being mindful of your happiness, getting rid of toxic relationships and moving forward and striving for just, joy. And that's it. So.

>> Vish:

Well, that's fantastic, rj. I can't wait to hear more about your travels and with your son. And, your son also will start looking at all the deals and analyzing them just a matter of time. Yeah, he's got the travel bug in him and he's going to be awesome. And the last I saw him was a baby and I can't wait to see him again sometime.

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah.

>> Vish:

And with that, keep on inspiring. You're such an influence for all of us. Thank you, rj for taking time from your travels.

>> RJ De Leon:

I really appreciate you having me here. Thanks, Fish. And I'm looking forward to continuing our, our relationship. It's been great.

>> Vish:

Well, it's, it's a long drawn process. Because I tell people, relationship doesn't mean you get and get in front of the other person's face. You got to give them that space. Space and time is a test of your relationship. And things will happen because at the end of the day, people do business with only people whom they like. You go to a place to eat only because you like those people. You like to trust them, right? Anything for that matter. No matter what, you look at reviews and go because you trust those people, right?

>> RJ De Leon:

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, thanks, Fish.

>> Vish:

Thank you, rj.